7.5.8.21178 update is conflicting with Windows Defender

[Milky]

Windows 10, Immunet won't "turn on" or "open" in the Windows Security options even though I can open immunet, and it is running. So I get windows Defender and Immunet popping up on a false positive, and Windows defender detecting files in Immunet folder as a virus. 

[ritchie58]

Hi Milky,

I would recommend that you create an exclusion for "Immunet's entire 'Program Files' folder" with Defender. Here is a URL from How-To Geek that explains how to create an exclusion with Defender if you're not sure how to do so. https://www.howtogeek.com/671233/how-to-add-exclusions-in-windows-defender-on-windows-10/

Also, make sure that Windows Security (including the firewall) lets Immunet launch at start-up & when you open the UI. You may have to create both incoming & out-going internet traffic allow rules with Windows Firewall for Immunet's processes which are: sfc.exe, iptray.exe, cscm.exe & freshclam.exe (if you use ClamAV).

Here's a Microsoft documentation article on how to create allow rules for the firewall. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/windows-firewall/best-practices-configuring 

You must be using an older version of Defender & Win 10 as newer versions of 10 with Defender will automatically disable itself if another AV is installed.

Personally speaking, I never wanted to or used Defender because it's a less than robust AV solution "compared to even some free AV programs!" Even Microsoft admits Defender is for users that don't have or don't want to use a good third-party AV with their computer.

Remember you do have the option to pair Immunet with another supported AV product instead of using Defender.

Cheers, Ritchie...

[Milky]

I've been using immunet for at least a year, and Windows Defender has been turned off, but just with the recent update, Windows Defender turned itself back on and immunet has been having these issues.

Edit to add details:

I've also uninstalled an reinstalled immunet. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Milky

[ritchie58]

So what's your plans then Milky?

Are you going to turn Defender back off or continue to use it?

If you plan to continue to use Defender I would highly recommend you create that exclusion rule for 'Immunet's entire Program Files folder' like I mentioned in my first thread to this topic. Then check the firewall to make sure that nothing is interfering with Immunet's processes. 

[Milky]

I turned off defender, but now immunet is not showing up in windows security settings and I continuously get notifications about not having virus protection. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Milky

[thegyrofrog]

On 9/9/2022 at 5:30 PM, Milky said:

I've been using immunet for at least a year, and Windows Defender has been turned off, but just with the recent update, Windows Defender turned itself back on and immunet has been having these issues.

I noticed this as well; same version 7.5.8.21178.  Today when I woke up the PC, I received some message that Defender had performed three scans of the PC and no issues were found.  I thought that was strange, as Defender had been disabled ever since I installed Immunet a year or two ago.  I went into Immunet (to check on a scheduled scan that was supposed to start) and right away noticed that the "Scan Now" link was greyed out.  When I clicked on it, it said that the scan couldn't run because the Immunet service wasn't started.  I went into services.msc (which I almost never have to do on a personal laptop), there were two services for Immunet and both were already running. Also, "Last Updated" showed September 2020.  When I clicked on "update to fix it" it said it was already up-to-date although the "Last Updated" did not change (it has indeed since updated).

I went ahead and rebooted, now Immunet is running as expected (and the "Last Updated" is current) but Defender is running at the same time.  I clicked around some in the Defender settings and it doesn't seem to know that Immunet is installed.  It's one thing to go in and configure Defender to co-exist with Immunet (as described above), but my point (and, if I understand, Milky's as well) is that heretofore I never had to do anything about it; both programs configured themselves correctly with no further intervention on my part (after installing Immunet).  Something does indeed seem to have changed with the new version.

EDIT:

Here's a screenshot of Windows Security (sorry I don't have any from Immunet before I rebooted).  It indicates the Antivirus provider is Wondows Defender; there's no option to change it -- only a button to go to that app.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by thegyrofrog

[ritchie58]

Hi guys,

Sorry to hear you're still having issues with Defender. Personally, I didn't have any problems with Defender when I updated to Immunet's newest version.

Then again, I already had Defender turned off and Immunet paired with another supported third-party AV so that could be the reason I didn't run into this issue myself.

"Why Windows Security/Defender is not recognizing Immunet as a legitimate AV is a mystery to me!" That's something an Admin or Dev should look into as I would never claim that I have all the answers.

Best wishes, Ritchie... 

Edit: I did send the Admin Harshal a private message about this matter so hopefully someone in development will look into this soon.

[ritchie58]

Hey guys,

I got a private message back from Harshal today and he stated they now are looking into the matter.

What they'll do is attempt to reproduce the issue and, hopefully, come up with an adequate solution to the problem if that occurs.

It might help if we know the exact build of Windows 10 you're both using.

Here's the instructions on how to access that info on your device.

Select Start -> Settings -> System -> About. Open About settings.

Under Device specifications -> System type , see if you're running a 32bit or 64bit version of Windows.

Under Windows specifications, check which edition and version of Windows your device is running.

Cheers, Ritchie...

[thegyrofrog]

On 9/15/2022 at 3:33 PM, ritchie58 said:

It might help if we know the exact build of Windows 10 you're both using.

In my case the edition is Windows 10 Pro, x64; the version is 21H2 and the OS build is 19044.2006. 

[ritchie58]

Thanks for adding your Windows 10 specifications thegyrofrog. Much appreciated! 

I hope Milky does the same some time soon too.

I'll let Harshal know what that data is for your OS.

Best wishes, Ritchie...

[ritchie58]

I got another pm from Harshal today and he stated that he was able to reproduce the issue with a virtual machine test rig!

It seems that Windows Security Center first recognized Immunet & then WSC seemed to have crashed or stopped for some currently unknown reason. Then Defender is recognized as the primary AV with WSC after that.

They will meticulously go over those log files from the test rig to see if they can determine what is causing this. 

That may take a few days but Harshal or myself will keep you guys informed if there's any new developments to report.

Regards, Ritchie...

 

[point5clue]

Hi - I'm hitting the same problem - updated to 7.5.8.21178 but got errors that no AV running.  Tried a few things then uninstalled and re-installed.  Now have Immunet running as an app, but 'Security providers' screen does not show it as an option.  I'm running Windows 10 Home 21H2 if its any use.

 

Happy to test anything if pinged

[ritchie58]

Thanks for your interest in Immunet & welcome to the support forum point5clue.

Sorry to hear you also ran into this issue.

If you read the other threads to this topic 'the devs are actively investigating' this issue. I haven't heard of any new updates regarding the matter, but as I mentioned, the admin Harshal or myself will let everyone know if there's anything new to report.

Out of curiosity is your Win 10 OS 32bit or 64bit?

Best wishes, Ritchie...

[point5clue]

3 minutes ago, ritchie58 said:

Out of curiosity is your Win 10 OS 32bit or 64bit?

Best wishes, Ritchie...

Hi, its 64bit

[ritchie58]

Thanks for getting back to me so fast!

It's really starting to make me wonder if this issue is associated the 64bit version of Win 10 21H2 only.

[Milky]

sorry for the late reply,

Windows 10 Pro 21H1

64bit OS build 19043.2006

[ritchie58]

That's ok with the late post Milky. Better late than never & I appreciate you posting the new OS build info! Very helpful I think!

I must be wrong with the notion that the 21H2 build is the only Win 10 OS experiencing a conflict with Immunet. That was just an educated guess on my part.

Harshal did pm me today and he stated that he was able to reproduce the behavior using a Virtual Machine test rig running a 64bit version of 20H2.

So there is a common denominator that I'm seeing however, all the Win 10 OS's being affected seem to be using a 64bit system.

[YUpiEU]

Hi  guys,

All the same as Milky wrote. I'm still driving Windows 7 Ultimate 32-bit and on the other PC is 64 bit. Problem is the same on both.

After reinstalling Immunet 7.5.8.21178 everything was OK, but just for a few minutes.  Then Action Centar has detected  that Windows did not find any antivirus software. Although Immunet still working and Windows Defender too. 

Could it be some issue about self protecting ?!? 

[ritchie58]

Thanks of the additional input regarding this issue YUpiEU.

Your the 'first person' to report that a 32bit system is encountering this behavior.

Is both your PC's running Win 7? Or is the 64bit system a different OS?

As far as what's exactly causing this issue is still not known to my knowledge as I haven't heard anything new so far.

Still using Win 7? You know Microsoft ended support for that platform back in January of 2020. That means you're not receiving any new security patches/updates, bug fixes or system improvements which leaves that platform more vulnerable to malware & hackers! More so as time goes by. Just thought I'd mention that.

Regards, Ritchie...

[Scats]

Hey Ritchie

 

I have been running a VM and ran in to the same problems even with win 11. Tested on a VM and my host pc. Everything was working till Defender restarted its self as if immunet was uninstalled and Defender kicks back on. Doing a few tests it seems to happen around 10 to 15 minuets after immunet is installed. My host is running Win 11 64 21h2 22000.1042 and my VMs run different versions of windows for testing. Like YUpiEU said Defender and immunet are running simultaneously. I am continuing to look at defender and the group policy editor if the problem is possibly defender itself.  Hopefully this helps the devs knowing it seems to be all versions of Windows. I'll post any updates I run in to

 

Stay safe all     

[YUpiEU]

Hi Ritchie,

8 hours ago, ritchie58 said:

Is both your PC's running Win 7? Or is the 64bit system a different OS?
 

Yes, both PC's running Win 7. 32bit + 64bit.

Thanks

[ritchie58]

Thanks for the additional input guys!

As you mentioned Scats & YUpiEU, it does now appear that it's not just Win 10 x64 seeing this issue with Defender!

I'll contact Harshal right away and let him know this new information.

It looks like the devs really need to find a solution to this problem and issue a new bug fix build as soon as possible as it's affecting more users than what I previously thought!

Thanks to everyone that has helped out by reporting this behavior!
Regards, Ritchie... 

[Harshal]

Thank you everyone for providing details along with the issue that you are observing. As Ritchie mentioned, we were able to get a repro of the issue and are working on remediating the issue. I'll keep everyone posted as soon as I have some more information to share and also ETA to be expected.

As always appreciate all your help. 

Thanks Harshal.

[Milky]

Thanks, Harshal! Great product btw, appreciate all the good work.

[ritchie58]

Harshal did mention to me, a completely new bug fix build shouldn't be needed. 

The update to correct this issue, more than likely, will be pushed to users through the User Interface some time soon.

That means it shouldn't take as long to correct compared to a completely new build version of Immunet that would have to be coded, tested and publicly released. That alternative would be more time consuming & work intensive! "So that is a bit of good news!!"